Taxes in Retirement

Speaker 1 00:00:05 This is annuity straight talk since 2008. Your host Brian Anderson has helped clients nationwide navigate the complex market for annuities with Brian's assistance. Hundreds of clients have achieved a profitable and secure retirement. I would know because Brian has answered many of my questions concerning annuities and retirement planning so that you can benefit as well. Let's get started. Here's Brian Speaker 2 00:00:49 Hello and welcome everyone to the annuity straight talk podcast. My name is Brian Anderson, founder and creator of annuity straight talk today for episode 24, we're going to talk about taxes and retirement, and I'm happy to introduce you to one of my newest affiliates in Dallas, Texas, excited to work with this guy in the coming years and be successful together. His name is Chris. Why don't you say hi to everybody, Chris? Speaker 3 00:01:09 Well, thank you, Brian is a pleasure to get on this with you. So my name is Chris crumby and I'm an advisor here in the Dallas Fort worth area. I'm glad to be a part of what Brian's got going on. So thank you for having me on. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:01:22 Well, it's great. Appreciate you bringing some topics to me and look forward to it. Like I need as much help as anybody else. And so I've got a platform and excited to share it with people. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and your career, Chris? Speaker 3 00:01:34 Okay. So this I'm in my 20th year, I've had all the different licenses and everything, and my primary focus right now is helping people transition into retirement. And there's a lot of questions, obviously about retirement taxes is one of the questions. And I know we're going to tackle that today, but I've got a real heart for helping people as they, again, transition from their working years into their retirement years. Speaker 2 00:01:59 Well, that's great. I mean, that's the same thing that we're doing here, you know, as it comes up and I'll put I'll just go ahead and put the plug in right now. If you ever want to talk to Chris, get ahold of me. I'm going to ask you right now, live on air. One of, to put your bio on the website when the website's done soon, everybody listening to the podcast has been hearing me talk about it for probably six, eight weeks. Now it's getting frustrating, but I swear we're really close, but yeah, we'd love to. And when that happens, if you're open to it, Chris, we'll have a scheduling link for you where you can take appointments directly from annuity, straight. Talk with anyone in the Dallas, Texas area who wants to meet with someone local that shares the same philosophy. So I think that'll work pretty well. And then obviously you can always work jointly with us. If you want me to keep an eye on Chris, or you want Chris to keep an eye on me, happy to look over things and tag team, it makes sure everything works out right for the consumer. Does that sound good? Speaker 3 00:02:46 Absolutely. I'm looking forward to, okay, Speaker 2 00:02:48 So you had a good topic and I thought it was a great general topic. Uh, we have not covered typically when a new advisor comes on a good general topics, nice and easy. That way you have, it's a good introduction to everybody. And then we can get into some more specific topics later when you have ideas, for instance, I'm going to, I got another one. You know, the previous episode I did with John, it was his third episode. He's a junkie for doing the podcast now. So if I get you excited, like John's excited, then we'll be doing these every week. Speaker 3 00:03:16 Absolutely. I'm excited about it. I mean, this is, this is kind of new ground for me doing podcasts. I've done, you know, YouTube things. And of course, you know, face-to-face workshops and stuff like that. But podcasts is a new arena for me. So I'm excited and a little nervous about it. Speaker 2 00:03:30 Ah, don't worry about it. You're doing great. So far, I told you about my hand. I told her was last week. Like, I guess I'm not afraid to look like an idiot, but I'll make a fool out of myself. If I can do it to make a point, I have no pride. I have no shame. Say it like it is. It's Nudie straight doc. It's the way it goes. And it's funny as I was telling everybody about that, and you said your wife said the same thing I was telling everybody about the hand boneheaded move watched the last episode, if you want more of the story. But as I was telling people about it, everybody's got stories. Oh man, guess what I did? Oh, I have something just like that. It's kind of funny. So we're all in the same boat. So taxes in retirement, like what are some of the frequently asked questions you come up with? I think it's important because a lot of people seem to say, oh no, what about taxes? What's going to happen? And we can talk about different elements of it, but start with just kind of the common concerns that you see people have when approaching retirement. Speaker 3 00:04:23 Well, I guess one of the first ones that people ask when I meet with him is that, am I going to pay in taxes? Where do I need to draw my money from? You know, those kinds of things, should I be concerned about taxes? People normally during their working years, I just pay taxes as they go. They don't really think about it because it comes out of their, their income. And they don't have to really be concerned about trying to strategize, to re reduce her taxes during their working years. But when your retirement and you're going on a potentially fixed income, should you be concerned about taxes? And then if I do need to be concerned, should I do something different? And if what, you know, what do I need to do differently? Speaker 2 00:05:03 You know, if you think about it, people are saving money. Like you said, money's coming out of their paycheck. They're just paying taxes. Maybe get a refund in April and they're getting deductions for 401ks IRAs. And then all of a sudden you don't get a deduction for that. You get taxed on it. So deduction in tax out. I think maybe that scares a lot of people. Would you agree with that? Where it's like, okay, this is a big shift now. Speaker 3 00:05:26 Oh, absolutely. Especially people getting on the social security. They're all of a sudden, wait a minute, I gotta pay tax on my social security income. Well, potentially. Yeah. It depends on your other income sources, but your social security income could be tax, do the standard deduction when I'm doing my taxes every year. Do I itemize you know, there's a lot of questions that, that come up as people transition and they just, they don't really know exactly what to do or if they should do anything at all Speaker 2 00:05:54 And there's taxes, you have to pay in taxes, you choose to pay. So if you pull money out of a qualified IRA or 401k, you have to pay taxes. If you've got a non-qualified investment, which is, you know, after tax investment, you're looking at maybe shorter long-term capital gains, you actually choose to pay that. Correct? Correct. Yeah. That kind of speaks to how do you draw money from where do you draw money from then? Obviously the IRA is once you get to 72, you have to take money out of it. I think that speaks to an early strategy versus a late strategy. Why you need to change things over time to maintain that good position. Oh, actually, Speaker 3 00:06:30 You know, and, and a lot of people they're confused about when to draw social security too, because if they've got social security income coming in and they've got IRA money, come in and they're drawing from their investments. Now, all of a sudden that, you know, is it going to kick them up to a higher tax bracket because they don't have the regular deductions that they had during their working years. So it's important to, to figure out what do I need to do differently? Do I need to strategize? Do I need to delay my social security draw out of my IRAs right now? Do I need to delay my IRAs? Because the taxes are delayed until I start taking them out at age 72. There's a lot of questions in the mix. And it's, it's good that to have somebody that you can work with, like Brian or myself, to help answer those questions. Speaker 2 00:07:15 I've seen one thing specifically, when you talk about timing of drawing from an IRA, tell me if you've experienced the same thing. You know, people that don't need to pull money out of an IRA specifically will say, well, I don't want to pay taxes and they'll just kind of unintentionally, let, just leave it alone. Say they retire at 65 and you know, X amount in the IRA compounds over time, they get to 72. Then they have to take it out. Actually creates a bigger problem down the road for tax purposes. Whereas having a strategy from the beginning to mitigate the effect of those later is probably, uh, is a really good thing. Speaker 3 00:07:49 Yeah, the IRAs and 401ks eventually, if you delay it as long as possible, which now has stage 72, then you're going to get hit with those required minimum distributions and all those taxes that have accrued. You're going to have to start taking money out according to what uncle Sam says, and you're going to have to pay taxes along the way. Well, if that nest egg has grown significantly, you could have a potential pretty good tax burden. And of course, for the rest of your life, as you continue to draw those requirement of distributions, you're paying taxes along the way their tax is going to go up. Are they going to go down? I mean, we really never know, but like I said, it's a potential time bomb waiting to go off the longer you delay. Speaker 2 00:08:34 No, absolutely it is. And so one thing I would tell everybody is Chris has done a number of social security seminars. Is that correct? Yes, sir. And so, you know, pretty well how the system works and how it's changed over time. And I think there's some misconceptions about it. Do you want to clear it up for everybody? How is social security taxed in retirement? Speaker 3 00:08:53 That's a great question. So it depends what all your income sources are. So if social security is your only source of income, and then you're not going to get taxed on any of your social security, but when you start adding in your other income sources, depending on whether they're taxable, non-taxable tax for Rios into the, the amount that they used to calculate, what your taxes are going to be on your social security and up to 85% of your benefits could be taxable depending on your other income sources and where you fall in the brackets. So to speak for either a single person or a married couple, Speaker 2 00:09:31 One thing where I had, it's only been one person over time. So if you're over a certain threshold, right then 85% of the social security benefit is taxable. Right? That's correct. And I had one guy coming in and call it the social security tax trap. Yeah. He thought that he was going to lose 85% of his benefit to taxes. Yeah. I get Speaker 3 00:09:53 That all the time. Speaker 2 00:09:54 Then I argued with him like, no, no, no. It means that's taxable. So if it's $10,000, then all of a sudden 8,500 is taxable. If you're in a 10% tax bracket, that means you pay 850 bucks. It's not that complicated, but, and there's, I would say the average person probably will pay some sort of taxes on their social security. And who knows if that changes because the law, the rules and everything has changed over time. Right? Speaker 3 00:10:18 In fact, I think the social security trustees just announced that if they don't make any, any further changes, you know, social security benefits are going to start drying up sooner than they originally anticipated. So they're always looking for ways to figure out how to reduce benefits, the light benefits for people that haven't retired yet. And those kinds of things, they could even change the, the structure of how you get paid on your social security, how they calculate the primary insurance amount. And then the brackets for the taxation on your social security benefits are constantly moving as well. Speaker 2 00:10:55 I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I, I mean, I looked it up in the middle of a podcast a few weeks ago, talking about social security. And I think that was the first one you were supposed to be on. You didn't show up. So strike one, Speaker 3 00:11:08 Strike one. Well, I'm glad you're giving me another chance. Speaker 2 00:11:11 I like you. So it's okay. Yeah. I'd be lying if I said I'm perfect. How about that? Speaker 3 00:11:18 Well, I think your risk speaks otherwise Speaker 2 00:11:21 That's one time ever have done something stupid. Come on. So no it's been published and it's out there. It says a 26% reduction in 2033. I can assume what they're going to do. And I thought kind of my gut instinct is that means testing is going to be part of it. I don't know if you agree with that. I do have several clients who don't really need their social security and I have several clients who rely on that completely for their retirement. But what do you think about that? About how they're going to reduce or what they're going to, to shore up the system because they've said they have to do something. Oh yeah. I mean you and I both know they're probably gonna wait until the very last minute. That's what they do with the, Speaker 3 00:12:00 They've been kicking this ball down the street for, you know, for years, nobody wants to take responsibility for it, but because it's become such a political thing, nobody wants to make that change. And unfortunately the longer they delay the worse the problem gets. And so, yeah, w one of the things that they did back in 2015 for example, is they took away some of the strategies for filing. And then they started moving the full retirement age up. It used to be 66. Then it moved up to 66 and so many months. And then now it's 67 for people that are born in 1960 and lighter. But one of the things that they're probably going to do is they're probably going to change that to where people born in 61, you know, we're probably going to have to delay it a couple months and then 62, a couple more months. That's one of the things that they'll probably do means testing is definitely one of the strategies that they could implement. Speaker 2 00:12:54 If you have too much money, then you don't get social security. Oh yeah. Speaker 3 00:12:57 And of course, one of the reasons that social security is six is because a lot of taxation dropped considerably over the last year with COVID. A lot of people were out of work and on unemployment, the taxes, the revenue that they brought in for social security dropped significantly, and they still had the same amount of money or more going out. And this things like that it's causing social security to be in more and more danger Speaker 2 00:13:22 Scaffolding on a high rise. And the bottom section has really rusty legs and it's kind of wobbling a little bit. The whole system comes crashing down. So it's interesting how one year can really highlight the issues with that. And it kind of shows you how weak the system is and why people need to plan around it. But that's, I mean, kind of a separate topic, you know, there's going to be more taxation and certainly a delay in benefits required is going to be part of it. I would assume so not to spend too much time on that, but it's an interesting topic. So other income sources for retirement taxation and how those work, you had a couple more here on this outline. Yes. Speaker 3 00:13:58 So, you know, social security, we just covered that. There's a lot of people in the past had pensions, fewer and fewer people have pensions, but that still is a source of income, especially people that work for school districts, cities, and states, and even federal government, those pensions are still available and those are taxes, ordinary income. Just, just like when you're during your working years. And you're getting that paycheck, they're just taxes. Ordinary income IRAs are going to be taxed as ordinary income. And just like a pension is same thing. If you draw money out of a 401k, if you still have a 401k, when it comes time to retire, rather than converting it to an IRA or something like that, annuities are a good solution for a lot of people. Those are texts that could be taxed a little bit different depending on the original source of the funds. If they come from 401k and they're put into an IRA type of thing, you're just taxes, ordinary income. If it's what they call non-qualified money, which means it came from after tax dollars, the annuities can be even a little bit more tax favorable as a, as an income source during retirement. What I mean by that is there the tax taxation on annuities on non-qualified annuities is a little friendlier than as ordinary income, Speaker 2 00:15:16 Right? So you'd have, yeah, you've got tax deferral on the accumulation of it where you don't have that with mutual funds, CDs, bonds, all that other stuff. Right. Essentially the only one that's missing I would think is you talk about a non-qualified or an after-tax investment. And there's several people that saved into their 401k and they had a little extra money and they built up say a brokerage account or a savings account. And then that's kind of a different animal. So to speak, you know, you might have, you've got short-term capital gains versus long-term capital gains. Correct? Yep. And so short term capital gains are earnings that happen within a year of initial investment. So those would be like bond interest payments, interest on CDs, the sale of an appreciated asset within a year of purchasing it mean those are all ordinary income. So if you have a $10,000 short term capital gain, then you've got 10,000 added to your ordinary income column. Speaker 2 00:16:13 And then if it's a long-term, if it's more than a year, then you're subject to capital gains taxes, which again, that one's been talked about going up as well, currently, it's based on your overall income. If you're not in a high income category, then you're not paying, I think it's 15% or something like that. And then you go up to 2020 plus if you're making a million bucks or something like that. So most people are safe from that. I would say one thing I hear a lot, especially in the last few years, and I'm sure you've heard the same is people say, you know, they talk about Roth conversions or what am I going to do because taxes are going to have to go through the roof. I mean, they're trying to raise taxes right now. They're talking about it. Fortunately, we've got a split Congress. Speaker 2 00:16:55 I think the feeling on that goes, I mean, I think it comes down to political persuasion. Half the country is going to say, ah, don't worry about it. And then half the country is going to say, they're coming to take everything. I mean, what do you tell people? Because it's not an unfounded belief by any means, but it's kind of one of those things where I guess I always say, do the best thing we can now make sure we can change and alter the plan. If something comes up, how do you talk to people about that? Speaker 3 00:17:23 Well, I mean, regardless of tree is, is, is supposed to be run like a business where you get money coming in and money going out. And unfortunately they don't really have the balances that they, that they should. And again, that's not, you know, I'm an equal opportunity. Complainer, both sides have continued to contribute to this problem, you know, for the past history. But if you think about it and just common sense, if they continue to spend more money, that's coming in, they're going to have to raise taxes. You can't just print money or inflation, we'll go through the roof and the dollars would be worthless. And so, you know, just common sense says that taxes are going to have to go up if spending doesn't go down, that's the case. You know, remember that, that time bomb that I was talking about with your IRAs and 401ks, that problem's going to get worse and worse. If taxes go up and again, common sense says that taxes are going to have to go up. Your spending goes up, Speaker 2 00:18:15 Right. You know, what we ought to do is we ought to come back and do a second part of this and talk about like a specific case study and, you know, talk to people about how, what I'm thinking is I'm thinking about the person that differs their IRA. We talked about the accumulation of funds, making RMDs a bigger problem. The interesting to say, because a lot of times I've told them, start drawing it down. You've got X amount left in the 12% bracket right now, start drawing it out, get it into, non-qualified pay the taxes on it, get it into a more tax favorable position. It's going to bring your RMD issue down, but you're paying taxes in a lower bracket. So if you think they're going up, start getting rid of them now, and then you're going to be in a better position strategically, I think in the long run, because you know, you'll have less requirement. I don't know. What do you think? I think that'd be kind of a nice little case study to just run through it real quick and say, Hey, here's one way of looking at it, right? Speaker 3 00:19:07 Oh yeah. I mean, there's a lot of different strategies that you can do, but one of the strategies that you just now touched on is potential time bomb. That's going to go off starting at age 72. Why don't you start tackling that now, just biting it off little by little, take advantage of extra room that you have in your tax bracket by pulling a little bit more out right now and putting in a text, favorite things, Roth IRAs are a great, great place to defer those taxes and potentially have that money come in tax-free which is going to help you down the road with your social security benefits and the taxation on that. But yeah, I mean, I think we could, you know, we could do another one and get, dig a little bit deeper into some of these strategies to try to reduce this potential tax problem that you're going to have, and maybe even get you into a net zero tax bracket during retirement. Speaker 2 00:20:02 I think that's a good idea. I mean, we could tag that right along with a Roth conversion. You talked about that as an opportunity as well. So yeah, we'll do that in the next couple of weeks. If you want to stick with this one for the time being. So, and that leads into kind of like your next point, which is traditional retirement income strategies. When you draw social security draw from investments, you want to speak a little bit about that part. Speaker 3 00:20:25 Brian mentioned that I do a lot of social security educational workshops, and I get couples that come in and typically you have attacks that are right an age difference between the, the husband and the wife. Uh, one is typically three to five years younger than the other, and may not be ready to get on social security. So the older ones is typically looking at, okay, when should I start taking social security? Cause I've heard social security is going belly up. Should I just go ahead and take my money at age 62 and just run? Or should I delay? And so again, a lot of people, their typical strategy is to start taking their social security benefits as soon as they can or at full retirement age. So at least they're not throwing, you know, throwing money away or given up some potential benefits, but that may not be the best option for you. And that's what my social security educational workshops help people get informed on the best time for them to file social security based on their particular situation. So rather than just taking the advice of your friend that trucked on down to social security at age 62 and started taking their benefits, maybe it would behoove you to take a little bit lighter, but the normal, uh, strategy or advice is just jump on social security as soon as you can. And that, that may be a huge mistake. Speaker 2 00:21:42 That's possible. It's actually, I mean, I did one a couple of weeks ago on that. They're talking about social security and run the numbers and the math. And if you're talking about just perspective of cashflow, there's two schools of thought, certainly. But like you said, and especially if you have other assets and you're trying to mitigate taxes later by delaying social security, you could certainly open up the window for drawing from qualified accounts or doing a Roth conversion, so to speak. So spend the taxes on those things and then you get a bigger benefit out of social security. So as long as there's a strategic advantage to delaying justifying the numbers, but I think in a taxation issue, it certainly can work just like you said, Speaker 3 00:22:21 I agree it's worth taking a look at and doing the math to make sure what's whatever is best for you and your situation. Speaker 2 00:22:28 Right? And so something like as far as income strategies and retirement, higher net worth individuals have kind of been, it's always been a popular option is to do muni bonds. What do you think about the muni bond market these days? Speaker 3 00:22:41 Well, the thing with, uh, traditional bonds, for example, let's, let's make a distinction between the two. So with traditional bonds, is it is they work in verse with whatever the stock market's doing. So if the stock market's up, bonds are up or down and then vice versa with muni bonds in a pick and a good municipal bond might be a good place to position some of your money to generate some potentially tax-free income. But there, there are other options out there that might be better for you than getting into something like that on the back end with, with bonds is the potential is that if the market is down, for example, um, if the market's up, for example, the value of your bond could go down when it comes time to try to sell it Speaker 2 00:23:22 True. And, you know, muni bonds have always been a really good option, you know, back when you could pretty consistently get four or 5% tax free, it was a nice option. Right. And then, but now you look at, I don't, I don't even know what they're paying, but I would assume they're where everything else is down around one and a half to two and a half percent, the tax freeze. Nice. But how exciting is 2%, Speaker 3 00:23:41 You're not even keeping up with inflation. So yeah, Speaker 2 00:23:45 So you've got one final point is like, you know, non-traditional tax reduction strategies want address a few of those points. And we kind of talked about a lot of them right now, but they're covered it fairly well, but yeah, we'll finish it off with that. I suppose, Speaker 3 00:23:58 No tagging on with the advice that most people get from, from their, from their neighbors and maybe even their, their well-meaning advisor is social security. As soon as possible, draw down your investments is needed, you know, dip into your, into your stock account or your bonds or your money market or whatever those types of things are, your brokerage account. Start drawing money out of that. But you want to delay your IRAs as much as possible because it's tax-free growth and you know, they're growing and you don't have to pay taxes on those right now. So that's the typical advice that a lot of people get is to let those things continue to grow and then just, you know, take your social security because it's free money and you don't want to lose it. And those types of things, and then just draw from your investments or live off your pension or whatever other income sources that you have. Speaker 2 00:24:49 Yeah. I mean, it should be said, I know you believe this as well as I do that. Everybody is different. And it takes kind of a careful set of calculations for each individual plan. Somebody retiring at 63 is different than somebody retiring at 68, depending on level of assets, income needs, where the money needs to be drawn from. So it's going to be, you know, that's where it helps, you know, we'll do a case study, I think, and, and show how it can be different, maybe two different ones, but that's kind of one of those issues that needs to be addressed. Like this is not tax advice. This is just general information. And to understand that everybody's going to be different, everybody's going to require a different plan, different strategy. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:25:29 And you know, like talk about a lot of people get advice from well-meaning friends, for example. Well, I, you know, I started my social security early or those types of things. And while it's well, meaning they don't know your particular situation and you can't use the same solution that somebody else used for your situation because everybody's different. Like you said, you know, everybody's situation is different. Somebody maybe retired a little bit younger or wait a few more years before they retire their problem or their, their situation is going to be totally different from yours. So again, well-meaning friends and family and everything, you know, we'll, we'll encourage you to do one thing or another, but it's, it's important to work with an advisor like Brian or myself or, or some of the other guys that he's formed alliances with because we're going to dig a little bit deeper. We're going to find out about your situation. We've got the software to help do the calculations, and we're going to do a very in-depth instead of you have what, what it is that you have, what your situation is, and then show you what the different outcomes would be, depending on whatever strategy that you use. Speaker 2 00:26:37 You know, the reason you have to remember it, this is all general information is because we can't nail down. We can't speak to one person on this podcast until each person or tell one person what to do. So you might've heard something from us today. Hey, that doesn't apply to me. It may not. It's the same. You can't go to an online forum like the Motley fool or the Bogle heads. And know for a fact that the advice you're getting is specific to your situation and exactly what you should do, everybody's different. So you gotta be careful, uh, where you get advice and certainly seek second opinions. Speaker 3 00:27:11 You know, people that know what I do for a living, they'll refer pizza people to me. And one of the first questions is this shit. I start my social security now, or should I buy an annuity or whatever? And my answer is always, well, it depends because your situation is not the same as your friend that referred you to me. And it's not the same as anybody else. So if somebody says this answer works for everybody, I don't know what they're doing, but they're not looking out for your interests. Speaker 2 00:27:40 No, that's absolutely true. So if you guys are interested, get ahold of us, Chris is going to be, you know, on the website, we'll have it up as soon as I get it. So Chris, you want to send me a bio and a mugshot or something or a headshot? Is it, Speaker 3 00:27:56 There might be a slightly younger version of it. But yeah, Speaker 2 00:28:01 I got that. I got that comment. Few times, the pictures on the website now are kind of old. I said, oh, that was like 10 years ago. So what Speaker 3 00:28:10 My goatee, when the picture was taken, so I'll look, I'll look a little bit older now. Speaker 2 00:28:15 That's okay. Salt in the beard is wisdom, right? I mean, my angle, you can't see it on my chin. It looks, Speaker 3 00:28:21 That looks good on guys. I guess. Great. Looks good on guys. I don't know. Speaker 2 00:28:24 Hey, there's a lot of people pay big money for highlights like that. Speaker 3 00:28:30 And I get this for free. Speaker 2 00:28:32 Exactly. See, it's like GQ, so. All right. Cool, Chris, thank you so much for your expertise. I'm glad to have you on board. We'll continue to work on this. Anybody in the Houston or Dallas area, and you can pick, I mean, like I've told everybody, Chris, there's going to be somebody in Indiana that says, man, I liked that guy. And he's just like me. I'd like to chat with him. So anybody anywhere come to a nudey straight talk.com green schedule a call button on any page. Chris is going to be up there soon, and I'm gonna actually call the scheduling service right now and try to get some people added to that. That you can always call me at (800) 438-5121 rings right here to my cell phone. At all times. You can also check out. So the video, if you want to see Chris, look him in the eye videos on YouTube as well. If you're listening to this on a podcast page and go ahead and subscribe to YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms to get notified when a new episode comes out. Chris, thank you so much. Speaker 3 00:29:28 Hey, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on I'm looking forward to our next one. Speaker 2 00:29:31 And we got another idea, right? We'll be back at you guys. Soon, a later episode, this has been episode 24 with Chris Crombie in Dallas, Texas. Thank you, sir. And thank everyone for joining us. We'll see you next week with episode number 25. Have a great day. Bye Speaker 1 00:29:58 You've been listening to annuity straight talk. 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